You’ve probably seen Raj Ghatak in something even if you didn’t know it: he’s been in Eastenders, Silent Witness, Life of Pi, Christopher Robin, Ghosts… the list goes on. Talent aside, it’s easy to see why he’s cast in so many works that are meant to connect to a wide audience: when he chats to us on a September morning, he pops up on the screen with no less than a warm and animated presence. Yet despite all his success thus far, he still never expected to see himself as a part of legendary musical The Producers, currently running at the Garrick Theater in London’s West End.

“I’d seen the show on Broadway, I’d seen it in the West End, and I’d watched both films,” he tells us. “But bizarrely, it was never something I thought I’d be in. My background is straight plays. I’ve been in musicals, yes, but Carmen Ghia has always been played by a white man. So when I was told they wanted to meet with me, I thought: ‘okay… interesting.‘”

From this initial meeting, Ghatak found himself faced with the legend who wrote the legendary comedy: Mel Brooks. “[He] himself had to give me his personal approval,” he recalls. “My meeting was filmed and sent to LA. I met the team on a Friday, and by Monday I had an email saying, ‘Pending Mel Brooks’ approval, we’d love to offer you the job.’ And I thought, ‘he’s 98 years old—what if I don’t get his approval? Does that mean I can’t do the job?‘”

As fate would have it, the “Mel Brooks seal of approval” came swiftly, a moment Ghatak still describes as “incredible.” The production then kicked off at the Menier Chocolate Factory, before transferring this year to its current run at the Garrick Theatre in the West End.

“It’s great fun,” Ghatak smiles, as he tells us how the audience reception has been. “Every show is electric. The audiences have been incredible; standing ovations every night, even the matinees. You can see how much people need to laugh.”

For those unfamiliar with the work, The Producers is a satire based on the 1967 film of the same name, about two Broadway producers who realise they can make a fortune by staging a flop rather than a hit. They pick the script Springtime for Hitler, hire the flamboyant director Roger De Bris and madness ensues. Ghatak plays the eccentric Carmen Ghia, the assistant director to De Bris’ equally chaotic character.

“Some people are coming and they don’t really know what they’re coming to,” he muses. “They’ve just heard through word of mouth that it’s good. So they’re coming to that. Then they come and see it and you can just see the look on the audience’s face going, ‘What? What am I watching?’ Because the times in which we live in the, you know, the current culture, this is not that, you know, this is very non-P.C. This is very not correct in a glorious way. And it’s delicious. And the audiences both at the Chocolate Factory and in the West End are they’re very grateful to be able to laugh as hard as they are. You realize how starved of belly laughter we’ve become. It’s just it doesn’t really happen anymore. One of the phrases that the audience would use at the Chocolate Factory quite a lot was that this was like therapy.”

Ghatak’s hopeful, earnest nature runs through his own reflections on the many twists and turns of his career “This [The Producers] is a dream I never knew I had,” he says. “But every project has its own magic. I loved being in The Father and the Assassin at the National Theatre. I’ve got two feature films coming, Hostages and Three Bags Full, where I worked with Hugh Jackman, who was lovely. And I’ve done TV like Ackley Bridge and Dead Set. I just love to work, to be quite frank.”

He is also candid about the contrasts between stage and screen, and how that impacts his comedic process in particular. “On screen it’s a very different discipline and obviously your parameters are a lot smaller. So everything is a lot more intense and smaller, and you don’t get the instant payoff that you do with theatre. Whereas in theatre, you spend weeks rehearsing and in something like a comedy you know when you’ve got it right because you hear the audience laugh. But then there’s a skill in when to come in with your next line. It’s like you surf the crest of a wave, because if you come in too soon, the line is lost in the laughter, and if you come in too late, then the moment’s gone. So you’ve got to pitch it just right.”

When we start to chat about how he feels representation for people of colour, he’s more than frank about his experiences, particular ones that he’s facing directly as a result of his works on The Producers.

“It’s quite a poignant question because you catch me as I’m experiencing something at the moment,” he begins thoughtfully. “Generally, things have got better. Certainly from when I started out, you didn’t see people that looked like me on TV and film and theatre. I did a show called Bombay Dreams, many years ago, which broke the glass ceiling, certainly for South Asian actors. There are now actors who I’ve worked with who have approached me in a room, in a rehearsal room or on set and said I was allowed to be an actor because of that show, which is a really incredible thing.

The first time someone told me that, “I came to see that show with my family, and I was allowed to be an actor because of you”, I burst into tears because you just don’t know when you’re doing a job, who you’re going to touch, move and inspire.

Cut to 22 years later. Now in The Producers, there are six principal roles of which I am one of the principals, and I’m the only principal of colour in a role that has never been played by a person of colour. Yet in the reviews I am – I read reviews in all the broadsheets – I am the only principal not to be mentioned. So there is very real erasure that is still happening and it is only people that from are within the community [who] know it to be true, and people from the outside don’t see it as a problem.

If you raise the point, then you’re being told that, ‘oh no, it’s not really the case’. It is the case. I’ve read the reviews. I am not there. And some of the reviews say Roger De Bris sings the song “Keep It Gay”. Well, actually, I sing the song “Keep It Gay” along with Roger. The two of us start the song. I’ve just been omitted and erased. So yes, there’s progress. It still needs to get a lot better. We’re nowhere near where we could be.

Then you also get what I’m experiencing now, which is not new and not the first time.

I think there is progress, but I think certainly in terms of casting, I’m sure the casting directors will kill me… but if they’re going diverse on a role, unless they have a particular idea of which ethnicity they’re going for, it kind of feels like they’ll go for black, mixed race black, then South Asian, then East Asian, maybe… that’s the kind of pecking order. And there are casting directors who also don’t have that pecking order and will really mix it up and go, no, I want you because of you, not your ethnicity. So there are those people and there are champions out there, and I’ve had people champion me, for which I’m very, very grateful.

But say in terms of a TV series and a film, we don’t get to carry them. We’ll get to be the best friend. We’ll get to be the doctor. We’ll get to be the support role or the service role. We’re not really there yet, I don’t think.”

Yet before he finally has to hop away, no doubt to dazzle another set of West End audiences with his dazzling smile and charisma, he takes care to mention another piece of work he is in that is set to no doubt spark more joy. He’s a part of the children’s show Piri Penguins on CBeebies, where he plays Barnacle.

“[He’s a] very posh penguin who is very dramatic with a red bow tie,” he happily describes. “It’s set on an iceberg and it’s really good fun, so I’d really encourage you to watch it!”

For Raj Ghatak, wanting to reach out to many people through his work, and to champion empathy and fun is something that is key to who he is. “I’d encourage people to step outside their comfort zones, try new experiences, and just see something different. And of course,” he adds with his signature, beaming smile. “Come and see The Producers at the Garrick Theatre!”

The Producers is running at the Garrick Theatre now. Find more and nab tickets here. Raj Ghatak can be found on Instagram here.